tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31735534.post114612180899381346..comments2023-10-15T16:28:31.347+01:00Comments on The Joseph Report: Naturally stark raving madAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00489507739203968378noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31735534.post-45758961041048992762012-04-17T09:26:07.570+01:002012-04-17T09:26:07.570+01:00For a great addition to this debate, I've borr...For a great addition to this debate, I've borrowed this from Andrew Jeford's 2011 Decanter article <br /><br /><br /><br />“Many natural wines are a dismal self-indulgence “, you state “No winemaker claiming to express terroir should fall back on the crutch of abusive acidification, chaptalisation, tannin-addition or de-alcoholisation of wines from unsuitable varieties in distinguished Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00489507739203968378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31735534.post-52562745561808837092012-04-16T11:33:47.749+01:002012-04-16T11:33:47.749+01:00Fabio. You ask what you can do in the absence od a...Fabio. You ask what you can do in the absence od a legal definition for "natural" wine. I have a simple answer. Don't join the gang (ie adopt the term) unless/until it's defined. The more people who adopt it without there being a definition, the more meaningless it is going to become.<br /><br />I emphatically DON'T think that all 'natural' wines are faulty. I'm Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00489507739203968378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31735534.post-60174444161790987572012-04-15T22:25:16.522+01:002012-04-15T22:25:16.522+01:00Robert,
Critical mass. Yes, I agree that it has n...Robert,<br /><br />Critical mass. Yes, I agree that it has not yet been reached if you count in normal wine drinkers. But it's the term that used by all naturalistas (producers, trade and writers) and by all non-naturalista or mainstream writers, eg Eric Azimov (NYT), Victoria Moore (Telegraph), etc, etc. So I'd say that the tipping point is approaching, and as the normal wine drinkers Fabiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08029558448422815096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31735534.post-29265226601331321392012-04-13T23:01:47.597+01:002012-04-13T23:01:47.597+01:00Thanks for continuing the thread Fabio.
To addres...Thanks for continuing the thread Fabio.<br /><br />To address the points separately. First, "natural wine" has not yet reached a critical mass. Most normal wine drinkers have yet to hear of it.<br /><br />Second, without legal definition, the term is worse than useless - and not just when referring to wine. Organic food producers in the US are getting angry with the abuse of the term byAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00489507739203968378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31735534.post-11014146917976620632012-04-13T21:38:58.870+01:002012-04-13T21:38:58.870+01:00Robert,
Re: the origin of the term 'natural w...Robert,<br /><br />Re: the origin of the term 'natural wine'. I've done a bit of searching on the internet and found this information: the first documented evidence dates from 1907 in the Languedoc region of France. See here: http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/Vive-Le-Vin-Nature-_1000 for example (there are many more).<br /><br />I don't think it's surprising thatFabiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08029558448422815096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31735534.post-28303965836441626822012-04-13T13:57:07.215+01:002012-04-13T13:57:07.215+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00489507739203968378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31735534.post-84763663841664942812012-04-12T23:44:03.896+01:002012-04-12T23:44:03.896+01:00Fabio, thank you for your contribution. And I'...Fabio, thank you for your contribution. And I'm sure that you - like other "natural" and other winemakers are, as you say "just working hard trying to produce the best wine you can". But so are countless producers who have not chosen to join the "natural" gang.<br /><br />You say it wasn't anyone's "deliberate plan" that these wines be called &Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00489507739203968378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31735534.post-32081098896232220772012-04-12T21:05:47.230+01:002012-04-12T21:05:47.230+01:00Robert and Robert,
Great discussion, and I'd ...Robert and Robert,<br /><br />Great discussion, and I'd like to contribute my 2 cents worth.<br /><br />I think that most wine writers have a view of natural wine that is not really consistent with the reality on the ground. This is quite normal I suppose, as their only source of information would be from the most vocal naturalistas who have a significant public and internet presence. Bear inFabiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08029558448422815096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31735534.post-80617859563345685222012-04-12T09:41:04.076+01:002012-04-12T09:41:04.076+01:00Robert, re-reviewing your point about coming up wi...Robert, re-reviewing your point about coming up with cleverer ways of segmenting wine, I think you are onto something interesting here, but it's something that probably doesn't and will never matter to most of the people who count: the consumers. <br /><br />Music is a good example. Norah Jones is classified as jazz, and was actually the biggest selling jazz artist in the US at one point,Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00489507739203968378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31735534.post-15908021159752466302012-04-11T08:54:14.169+01:002012-04-11T08:54:14.169+01:00Robert, you and I both deal in words. Yes, the air...Robert, you and I both deal in words. Yes, the airlines chose words with positive connotations to describe the premium parts of their aircraft, but they deliberately did not choose words with undesirable negatives (non-business; non-executive) because those same airlines want to sell seats at the back of the plane.<br /><br />My issue with the Naturalistas is that they do not see themselves as Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00489507739203968378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31735534.post-70904310997061749862012-04-10T23:31:30.479+01:002012-04-10T23:31:30.479+01:00But Robert, the airlines or trains do not have a &...But Robert, the airlines or trains do not have a "Comfortable" section. They used to have First Class, Second Class, etc. but realised that saying Second was negative. So they kept First, then created Business or Executive - because that emphasises the positive aspects of the category, and Economy (once again, an important positive characteristic).<br /><br />To contrast Natural wines, Robert McIntoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17384607673163426191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31735534.post-51214999401621232712012-04-10T23:09:14.073+01:002012-04-10T23:09:14.073+01:00Stu, we wine twitterati may all have grown bored b...Stu, we wine twitterati may all have grown bored by the discussion of Natural Wine; we forget that the vast majority of wuggles - normal wine drinkers - have either never heard of it or are just beginning to stub their toes on it. <br /><br />My post was inspired by conversations with a couple of just such people who asked me to explain the difference between Natural and other wines...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00489507739203968378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31735534.post-88127752700445511442012-04-10T23:03:21.800+01:002012-04-10T23:03:21.800+01:00I agree with almost all of this, and you make the ...I agree with almost all of this, and you make the points well. I have huge questions over the validity of the biodynamicists' cow's horn and homeopathic doses of witches' brew but, as you say, they have always been happy to be considered as following an alternative rather than a 'correct' path. For the Naturistas to adopt terms like 'natural', 'authentic' and &Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00489507739203968378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31735534.post-52603467850818278132012-04-10T22:54:04.262+01:002012-04-10T22:54:04.262+01:00It's just another approach to vinification. B...It's just another approach to vinification. Base level. If you like them, buy them, if you don't....well don't.<br /><br />It's getting quite boring really.Stu.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13740407665382016460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31735534.post-3558857147700049102012-04-10T21:28:24.428+01:002012-04-10T21:28:24.428+01:00I agree with some of this, but not all.
First, ju...I agree with some of this, but not all.<br /><br />First, just because some wines are "Natural" does not, in my mind at least, mean all others are "unnatural", just as "Executive Class" in air travel doesn't automatically make us think of a terms like "unexecutive" - they've segmented their market and come up with a positive term for each category. Robert McIntoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17384607673163426191noreply@blogger.com